Done bought a house... OT

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Originally posted by munkkeyboy:
I've heard they don't even put seats on the toilets [img]eek.gif[/img] [/size][/color][/QB]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah, all my crappers came with seats, then again, now that I think of it, I did get the toilet upgrade so I could get elongated bowls. I bet the standard hoppers don't have seats, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

When we were starting our search for a builder there was one that had "front door" listed as a $700 option!! I asked what the heck they did if I didn't get the option and they said that they leave you a ruffed in opening for a door....so basically, a big hole in the front of the house [img]eek.gif[/img] You'd think at almost $180/ sq ft they'd at least give you a door to shut!! (we didn't go with that builder)

And another thing that had me swinging at the fences (and wishing I'd have paid the money) was brick washing. Like I said, the yard is basically a giant mud pit when the house is being built, so the bricks and pretty much the entire house from the ground to about 6 ft. up is caked with dried mud and filthy. Just before our closing the builder asked if I wanted to get the bricks washed for $250.00 (becuase Lord knows they won't give you a CLEAN house, just a house.) I figured I have a power washer and could do it myself for $10, or whatever the soap wuld cost, so I told the builder to go "f" himself (that was the way we talked to each other by the end of the process, and we were so cordial with each other in the beginning.....) BIG mistake.

By the time I threw in the towel the house had mud on pretty much every square inch of the exterior, including the friggin roof and looked HORRIBLE. I ended up waiting till we got the landscaping in and paid a powerwashing company $300 to clean the mess I made..... [img]confused.gif[/img]

I don't agree about not using a realtor. I do agree that they don't do a ton, especially after the sale, but they can be useful during the process if you get a good one. On our first house, the realtor was essentially useless - we found the home we wanted from a local listing (she didn't point it out to us), and all she did was come with us to look at the place. After the sale, we never heard from her again.

However, on our second house, we moved to a different area and our relator was pretty helpful. He knew the area much better than we did and was able to save us the headache of combing through the listings by ourselves. Granted, we were also selling our first house at the same time and we definitely needed someone else to handle that for us. Overall, our realtor on the second house coordinated things pretty well and he gave us decent advice. And there was actually a problem with the first house we sold a few months AFTER the sale, and it was this same realtor that produced some paperwork that saved our asses (the problem actually stemmed from an oversight by our lawyer!)

So having had both positive and negative experiences with realtors, I wouldn't advise ruling one outif you are a first time buyer. At the very least, they are supposed to guide you through the home buying process and theoretically be able to answer the many questions you will have. I'd give you the same advice I did before - ask around to people you know who have already bought ahome in the area you are looking...that's how we found our second realtor, who came highly recommended by a friend of ours.

As I said, they can be useful, more so to the buyer than the seller. Still, you'll find that by going through a realtor you won't be shown houses that aren't as profitable for them to sell. No matter what they tell you, it isn't their job to get a buyer the PERFECT house - it's to get them to BUY a house, preferably the one that will make them the most commission. As in any business dealing, if you remember that the other parties involved are NOT there looking out for your interests as their top priority but their own, and you understand what those interests are, then you should be okay.

In this particular case - which is what I was talking about - Imbalance is considering bringing in a real estate agent AFTER they've already found a house you like. I would highly advise against that. The value they can serve has already been passed by, and now it's time for a lawyer, inspector, title company and mortgage expert.

Assuming that bringing in a realtor will protect you - that's a big mistake. You'll need to do that, and I've known enough people that were screwed by realtors to know better than to assume it.

One of the most interesting books in recent years is Freakanomics. And they have a great section on real estate and realtors. I recommend the book highly.

I agree with Munkky. This is your first house so you have no idea of what's going on and what to expect, so a realtor can be very helpful and be able to answer a lot of your questions.

I had the same realtor for both my houses, she was my buying and selling agent on my first house and my buying (and the previous owner's selling agent) and selling agent on the second house, and she was incredibly valuable (to the point with the second house she was worried about getting in trouble)

My first house had several offers that were already on the table before I even looked at it, which I never would have known without the realtor. I was able to put in my offer knowing that there were other offers (not knowing how much the other offers were of course) and ended up being the best offer.

The second house was where my realtor thought she might get in trouble. She did the usual realtor thing and gave us a huge stack of listings that were a bit out of the price range that we were looking in, and made that comment that one of the houses in the stack needed to sell, BAD. The owners had a house that they had just built that they were on the verge of losing if they didn't get their house sold. We went looking at the houses with this factoid in our back pockets, and when we looked at the house that we ended up buying all the signs were there that the people wanted to sell....BAD. Bacon had been recently cooked, and an apple pie was cooling on the stove (2 realtor tricks to make the house feel "homey") and the owners had that "please buy this house" look on their face as they sat and watched TV trying not to look too desperate.

As soon as we left the house I said to my wife "this is the house that needs out." I called the realtor back and made an offer $50,000 less then the original asking price and that's when she pooped her pants. I assured her that her comment had nothing to do with my offer (and that I'd sign an affidavit if it came to it) and she made the offer. The previous owners countered (which I knew they would) but their counter was still $40,000 less then their original asking price (and this was a number of years ago when we were in a seller's market). I re-countered the same amount but asked for some of their things (snow blower, lawn mower and a few other miscellanious items that they had in the house....just to be a dick) and they accepted. Had I not had the realtor I don't think I could have made such bold (and dick-headed) offers to these people.....

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Originally posted by macabeee:
This is your first house so you have no idea of what's going on and what to expect...

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I know a heck of a lot more than I did this time yesterday, thanks to you guys.

Our realtor has been instrumental in answering a lot of our questions, and I think at least half of the homes he's shown us weren't even being sold through his agency, so it's not like he would make a dime if we bought one of those, right? He's done everything I feel that a realtor should without hesitation, and since we've come this far with him and we're already comfortable with him, he seems a good choice to act as our closing agent if he is able to act in that capacity on this house. I do know that realtors aren't safety nets for after the sale - it's not like you can just return a house to WalMart - but my perception is that they should at least be a guide through the signing process. The idea of hiring a lawyer is less appealing, but I'm certainly going to look into it as an option.

Our guy is definately in it to sell, like Michael says, but I think less for the sake of profit than for the effect of eliminating just one more of these "handyman specials" from his market. Plan B wouldn't have been a consideration, but it's been for sale for over a year, and now it's clearance priced. We were all but ready to move on it until someone saw this other house with a sign on it. But he just updated us on two more new listings that we will probably investigate anyway, whether our offer goes through with this or not.

Which, by the way, we got no further on that front today because the fellow who arranged our pre-approval was out of the office and nobody else at Wells Fargo could look up anything, apparently. I look at it as an opportunity to spend the long weekend checking out other advertised rates, followed by much horn blowing on Tuesday. Is there any sense in pitching an offer before we are certain we can get the loan? The seller did say that someone else had toured the place, but didn't indicate if any offers had been discussed.

As far as haggling over price goes, this is a bank that's selling it. They don't tend to go for lowballing, but now that I know that an inspector's report can be used as a haggling tool I will by all means employ it. The buyer's market is the reason that Plan B could work out for us, but plan A is so much more to our liking, and must be negotiable for the same reason. To be frank, we were pre-approved for an amount just under $80k, the house (we're told, and this is a bank...) is appraised at $84k, and they are asking just under $70k. We don't yet have an inkling about closing costs or down payments yet (had been hoping to find that out today), but all of this seems reasonable for the building itself with the lot and rental unit in this location, especially if we are able to get credits for any other repair needs that an inspector discovers.

I never really thought about the real estate industry having a dead season, but that makes sense. I did read several news articles about how the house market is flooded and values are plummeting, though. In a way, that makes me happy because of our timing, but at the same time it's a worry for a lot of other reasons. I work in an industry that is a cousin, sort of, and it won't do me much good to buy a house for cheap if I lose my job. But that's depressing bs, let's focus on the positive.

My wife and I had also discussed what we would do with the additional house on the property, whether we would ultimately rent it out or just use it as storage, and how much would need fixed therein. Sparks of imagination flourished and we concluded that it should be our hobby palace. That means...MY TOYS CAN HAVE A HOME!!! But then, reality dictates that things like taxes and insurance will require the supplimental income from renting it out. I haven't taken much time to fancy myself a land lord, so we'll worry about that after we actually own the place.

Thanks again, gang. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

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Our realtor has been instrumental in answering a lot of our questions, and I think at least half of the homes he's shown us weren't even being sold through his agency, so it's not like he would make a dime if we bought one of those, right?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, he get's his half of the realtor fee. Generally the seller's realtor - the person you're thinking of as being 'through their agency' - would get half, and your realtor gets half.

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He's done everything I feel that a realtor should without hesitation, and since we've come this far with him and we're already comfortable with him, he seems a good choice to act as our closing agent if he is able to act in that capacity on this house. I do know that realtors aren't safety nets for after the sale - it's not like you can just return a house to WalMart - but my perception is that they should at least be a guide through the signing process. The idea of hiring a lawyer is less appealing, but I'm certainly going to look into it as an option.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you've been working through this guy (I was under the impression you didn't have a realtor?) then you should finish with him.

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Is there any sense in pitching an offer before we are certain we can get the loan? The seller did say that someone else had toured the place, but didn't indicate if any offers had been discussed.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd advise against it. Once you make the offer, if they accept, you're obligated. Now, you can usually get out of it, but not for free, unless there's something wrong with the house.

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As far as haggling over price goes, this is a bank that's selling it. They don't tend to go for lowballing, but now that I know that an inspector's report can be used as a haggling tool I will by all means employ it.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely. It's not so much a haggling tool as something to say "Yes, we'll buy this house (because we've already made an offer and you've accepted) but I want these things fixed before we'll close". If they won't fix them, you can back out of the deal. Again, I'd only worry about the big ticket items, and if you get a good inspector he'll list even little things like slightly loose sockets and faucet drains that don't quite close right.

I would actually recommend getting a lawyer, as much as it sucks to have to do so. Again, just try to make sure you get someone rebutable. The lawyer's job is essentially to go over all the documentation involved with the sale with a fine-tooth comb, and to explain what everything means. Plus, after everything is signed, they should file it all for you. Of course it's added cost to hire a lawyer, but I don't know many people who can make heads or tails of the literally PILES of paperwork involved in buying a house.

Both times we've bought a house, the lawyers we used caught a number of "questionable" items in the paperwork as well as just small things that needed to be ammended...which to my knowledge is fairly standard in buying a house. Part of their job is to make sure you aren't getting screwed by the various people involved in selilng you the house. On the house we bought a year ago, the seller's realtor had actually "fixed" the paperwork so that she was going to get the entire commision and our realtor was going to get nothing! Our lawyer did, however, overlook something that needed to be on our paperwork for the house WE were selling...but that's a whole other story.

I guess my feeling is that it's safest to have a lawyer working with you for the closing...although I wouldn't advocate trusting them 100%. Like Michael is saying about realtors, these people ARE sometimes only there to get paid. But I just remember there being tons of legal mumbo-jumbo on all the paperwork and not understanding any of it without the lawyer there to explain it.

Yep, lawyer is always a good idea to review the docs, whether or not you have an realtor. Real estate agents aren't lawyers, although they know the basics, but you really need a lawyer to be sure there's nothing off about the paperwork.

buying a house is such a pain in the ass, I've done it twice, but there's nothing like not having to answer to a landlord and being able to do whatever you wish with your own property. In the end its worth it.
Myself, I wouldnt buy without an agent. let them do as much of the hunting and work for you. They might not be great, but they know much more about real estate than I ever will.
wait until you have to sign your name 50 million times at closing! YIKES!

One thing, just be sure to pay a little more money and hire a home inspector. its worth it in the end and you can usually get some of the problems they find fixed by the seller. also a termite inspector is a must. avoid as many problems you might encounter in the future and make sure everything passes code, and if not, they usually have to bring it up to code

<font color="#cd6600" size="1">[ September 01, 2006 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Chaserfan ]</font>

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Originally posted by munkkeyboy:
And unless you buy a house new, there is almost always going to be some kind of updating to be done

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh believe me, there is far more that needs to be done to a newly built house then one would expect.

Builders don't do ANYTHING free, and certain things (like paying $25 per install for toilet paper holders) are just rediculous to have the builders do.

Then too you get "builder's quality" items on any fixture that you don't specify (and pay for), like lights. Every light in my house that wasn't recessed was one of those little ball shaped, cheap lights. I had to go and get ceiling fans and different lights and change all of those out myself.

And the biggest update that almost always has to be done to a new house is landscaping. Some builders will throw in sod and maybe an Arborvitte or two as "part of the package", but for the most part you get a house sitting on a huge mound of dirt (that becomes a huge mud pit as soon as it rains) and you're left to landscape it however you want, which can get very expensive.

Grant it, most of the updates that need to be done to a new house are purely cosmetic, but they still need to be done to make the house "complete" and add up rather quickly.